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Public News Post #12469

A Concerned Cyrenian-not me

Written by: Sorceress Aradea Zayne, the Neophyte
Date: Tuesday, April 6th, 2004
Addressed to: Everyone


I originally desired this message to be posted to the Cyrene board. But
as that simple request was not met, I shall post this for all to see.
There are many who left our fair city who will enjoy seeing this as it
will only add to what they have already said. I do not put my name on
this letter as I can only see retribution taken upon me by the Senate or
the Imperiate for doing this. This message is by no means an attack on
Aeryi or her abilities, only on the utter throwing out of the Twelve
Tables to suit needs.

Time and time again certain members of the current Senate have
interpreted the Twelve Tables to meet their own ends. Orders given to
city members to refrain from socializing with certain Orders, Cities,
Guilds, etc. And now it is blatently being done again with the current
election.

I have no personal dislike of Aeryi, so please do not take this as an
attack on her.

This is what are 'esteemed' Imperiate recently posted.

'I repeat, this is a special election specifically to reinstate Aeryi as
Senator. Please do not contest in this upcoming election so that we can
get through this as painlessly as possible. Normal procedures for
contestation will be in place once this special election is over. This
has the backing of the full Senate so you can speak to any Senator if
you have any questions.'

In this, we are 'asked' to not contest so that someone who left the city
can be re-elected to their Senate post. I quote asked because lately
being 'asked' to do something has borne the weight of an order(ie being
asked not to help out Mhaldorian novices in our city). Those who
question these 'askings' have been threatened on more than one occasion.
What would happen if someone actually put up a fair contestation? Would
they be threatened to?

In this situation, lets consult the Twelve Tables:

'Once the current Senator has been contested, anyone else that feels
that they can better serve the people of Cyreneis welcome to contest.'
Taking that contesting a vacant spot is still contesting, the Tables
clearly state that 'anyone' is 'welcome to contest'. And it means that.
If I wish to contest, by all rights I can. But our Imperiate now says we
will have a 'Special Election' and after it we will return to the
'Normal procedure for contestation'. What gives the Imperiate the right
to do this? Nothing at all. Once again, an example of the Tables being
set aside for the whims of our leader. Now, another glaring violation of
the Twelve Tables. And this is where I mean no attack on Aeryi. She was
a good Senator, but I will get to my arguement against that soon.

'Those that contest must be over the age of 25 and must have been a
Citizen of Cyrene for the previous 5 years.'

Sadly, Aeryi no longer fits this criteria and by the Twelve Tables, is
ineligible to even contest what used to be her own position. You can
argue that she did it out of emotion and whatnot, but the fact still
remains that she has been a Cyrene citizen for less than a few months
now. I will again point to a post from our Imperiate in which he posted
a message he wrote to someone who wished to get an exemption for this
same portion of the Tables.

'You can not break the law to become the law's protector. You can not
leave the city and return and pretend you did not leave. Your past
contributions to the city do not give you the right to just do as you
wish. Neither you nor I is above the law. If you contest, I will post
that your contestation is illegal and seek ways to remove your name from
the list of candidates.'

I really do not need to comment much on that, but the Imperiate, with
this 'Special Election' has just done exactly the opposite of what he
told this once potential contestor. Yes, in that instance the person in
question had been gone for several years. But if it is one day or one
year or fifty years, how does that make someone suddenly 'above the
law'? And what gives the Senate the right to do so?

Actions like these are against the spirit of the Tables and an affront
to the citizenry. Acts like these have contributed to many long time and
well respected citizens leaving the city. If the Senate continues on
this path, they will see many more leave too. I call on the Senate to
question themselves about their own actions and the detriment they have
been placing on Cyrene. I do not wish to call for their removal, but if
the atmosphere in Cyrene does not improve or gets worse, I will not
hesitate to do so.

A Concerned CyrenianObviously not me!

ADDENDUM TO THIS MESSAGE

Since Daare decided to respond to some of these concerns, I will respond
to them. As my original message was not posted as I said above, it will
go along with it.

'To call the current "election" an election is a obviously a misnomer.
It is certainly not an election in the normal sense of the term. I would
not dictate terms for who could run or who you could vote for in a
actual election.'

Wow, once again we have these mysterious 'elections' that aren't
elections. There is nothing that ever states the Senate can do such a
thing. You try to make what you are doing look right but do you really
think people are stupid to miss you doing your best to say this isn't a
real election? You won't dictate who can run in an 'actual' election,
but have no problems with any illegal election you should so deem to
happen. What next, Dallam steps down and you call a 'Special Election'
so that anyone you don't wish to run cannot without seeming like they
want to cause chaos?

'Yes, she technically left the city but her actions both before and
after make it clear that it was not what she truly wished to
do......Taking all these things into account, it was thought that
reinstating Aeryi would be the best course of action for the city.'

Yes, she left the city. But she meant to, no matter if she changed her
mind afterwards. I do not necessarily like the course the city has
taken. But at least I, unlike some who have the same issue with Cyrene,
haven't left. You can't fix problems are solve anything by leaving.
Doing so only showed that Aeryi became rash, not necessarily something
you may want in a Senator, and yet you say that just pretty much making
her a Senator again would be better for the city. Just take a look at
how many comments have been made about it.

How is that making the city better. The better course of action would've
been to make a referendum to the city to decide if they would allow
Aeryi to contest before the 5 year requirement, and then let anyone who
wished to contest also run instead of telling us not to.

'At the time of the vote to reinstate Aeryi, I had received no hint that
anyone was likely to contest....We were forced to do this because of the
way in which the election system works, not in an attempt to subvert the
electoral process.'

One, you never even mentioned to the city that the Senate would be
considering this. Two, how would you know if there was no one who
would've contested. Three, because you told people not to enter, you
ended up subverting the electoral process anyways. And I do believe you
meant to. Why else force us to not contest? And by trying to make up for
the situation by saying we will have a referendum afterwards does
nothing. Especially when you say that it will take a yes vote to 'open'
a contestation which gives the impression that if the vote is no that
there can be no contestation. People can always contest as long as they
follow the Tables, which only states that a contestor must speak to the
Imperiate before contesting. The Imperiate, however, cannot prevent the
person from contesting if they so do wish.

'The question has also arisen about the clause in the Twelve Tables
regarding five years of continuous citizenship. There is precedent for
making an exception in unusual circumstances (Cyrene 162) and I think
Aeryi's situation certainly qualifies....In any case, Aeryi has been
granted an exemption to the five-year's of continuous citizenship clause
due to the unusual circumstances of her case.'

That exception was to give a new guild an opportunity to contest if they
so wished. It didn't mean they would do it, and it certainly didn't
ensure a Mojushai contestor would win. It was made at a time when there
had only been one guild existing in the city. That kind of circumstance
isn't the issue here, and with such a large base of potential contestors
now, there would be no reason to grant an exemption on that basis. As I
stated before, this whole issue could've been handled better and end up
like it is now, but you had to go force it upon our democratic society
and demand we do as you say. You may say you didn't do such a thing, but
your tone is louder than your words. You have threatened our citizens
for even giving thought to questoning what you say, so how else can one
take anything you 'ask'? Time and time again you have attempted to mold
Cyrene behavior towards what you wish, and each time the outcry against
it has been stronger. I am certain that if you continue along this
course you will find people demanding your ouster loudly.

Be warned.

----
The Above was a letter sent to me with a request for it to be posted so
there it is. Replying or messaging to me is a useless point as I am not
the composer. Thank you and Good Day.

Penned by my hand on the 5th of Ero, in the year 360 AF.


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Public News Post #12469

A Concerned Cyrenian-not me

Written by: Sorceress Aradea Zayne, the Neophyte
Date: Tuesday, April 6th, 2004
Addressed to: Everyone


I originally desired this message to be posted to the Cyrene board. But
as that simple request was not met, I shall post this for all to see.
There are many who left our fair city who will enjoy seeing this as it
will only add to what they have already said. I do not put my name on
this letter as I can only see retribution taken upon me by the Senate or
the Imperiate for doing this. This message is by no means an attack on
Aeryi or her abilities, only on the utter throwing out of the Twelve
Tables to suit needs.

Time and time again certain members of the current Senate have
interpreted the Twelve Tables to meet their own ends. Orders given to
city members to refrain from socializing with certain Orders, Cities,
Guilds, etc. And now it is blatently being done again with the current
election.

I have no personal dislike of Aeryi, so please do not take this as an
attack on her.

This is what are 'esteemed' Imperiate recently posted.

'I repeat, this is a special election specifically to reinstate Aeryi as
Senator. Please do not contest in this upcoming election so that we can
get through this as painlessly as possible. Normal procedures for
contestation will be in place once this special election is over. This
has the backing of the full Senate so you can speak to any Senator if
you have any questions.'

In this, we are 'asked' to not contest so that someone who left the city
can be re-elected to their Senate post. I quote asked because lately
being 'asked' to do something has borne the weight of an order(ie being
asked not to help out Mhaldorian novices in our city). Those who
question these 'askings' have been threatened on more than one occasion.
What would happen if someone actually put up a fair contestation? Would
they be threatened to?

In this situation, lets consult the Twelve Tables:

'Once the current Senator has been contested, anyone else that feels
that they can better serve the people of Cyreneis welcome to contest.'
Taking that contesting a vacant spot is still contesting, the Tables
clearly state that 'anyone' is 'welcome to contest'. And it means that.
If I wish to contest, by all rights I can. But our Imperiate now says we
will have a 'Special Election' and after it we will return to the
'Normal procedure for contestation'. What gives the Imperiate the right
to do this? Nothing at all. Once again, an example of the Tables being
set aside for the whims of our leader. Now, another glaring violation of
the Twelve Tables. And this is where I mean no attack on Aeryi. She was
a good Senator, but I will get to my arguement against that soon.

'Those that contest must be over the age of 25 and must have been a
Citizen of Cyrene for the previous 5 years.'

Sadly, Aeryi no longer fits this criteria and by the Twelve Tables, is
ineligible to even contest what used to be her own position. You can
argue that she did it out of emotion and whatnot, but the fact still
remains that she has been a Cyrene citizen for less than a few months
now. I will again point to a post from our Imperiate in which he posted
a message he wrote to someone who wished to get an exemption for this
same portion of the Tables.

'You can not break the law to become the law's protector. You can not
leave the city and return and pretend you did not leave. Your past
contributions to the city do not give you the right to just do as you
wish. Neither you nor I is above the law. If you contest, I will post
that your contestation is illegal and seek ways to remove your name from
the list of candidates.'

I really do not need to comment much on that, but the Imperiate, with
this 'Special Election' has just done exactly the opposite of what he
told this once potential contestor. Yes, in that instance the person in
question had been gone for several years. But if it is one day or one
year or fifty years, how does that make someone suddenly 'above the
law'? And what gives the Senate the right to do so?

Actions like these are against the spirit of the Tables and an affront
to the citizenry. Acts like these have contributed to many long time and
well respected citizens leaving the city. If the Senate continues on
this path, they will see many more leave too. I call on the Senate to
question themselves about their own actions and the detriment they have
been placing on Cyrene. I do not wish to call for their removal, but if
the atmosphere in Cyrene does not improve or gets worse, I will not
hesitate to do so.

A Concerned CyrenianObviously not me!

ADDENDUM TO THIS MESSAGE

Since Daare decided to respond to some of these concerns, I will respond
to them. As my original message was not posted as I said above, it will
go along with it.

'To call the current "election" an election is a obviously a misnomer.
It is certainly not an election in the normal sense of the term. I would
not dictate terms for who could run or who you could vote for in a
actual election.'

Wow, once again we have these mysterious 'elections' that aren't
elections. There is nothing that ever states the Senate can do such a
thing. You try to make what you are doing look right but do you really
think people are stupid to miss you doing your best to say this isn't a
real election? You won't dictate who can run in an 'actual' election,
but have no problems with any illegal election you should so deem to
happen. What next, Dallam steps down and you call a 'Special Election'
so that anyone you don't wish to run cannot without seeming like they
want to cause chaos?

'Yes, she technically left the city but her actions both before and
after make it clear that it was not what she truly wished to
do......Taking all these things into account, it was thought that
reinstating Aeryi would be the best course of action for the city.'

Yes, she left the city. But she meant to, no matter if she changed her
mind afterwards. I do not necessarily like the course the city has
taken. But at least I, unlike some who have the same issue with Cyrene,
haven't left. You can't fix problems are solve anything by leaving.
Doing so only showed that Aeryi became rash, not necessarily something
you may want in a Senator, and yet you say that just pretty much making
her a Senator again would be better for the city. Just take a look at
how many comments have been made about it.

How is that making the city better. The better course of action would've
been to make a referendum to the city to decide if they would allow
Aeryi to contest before the 5 year requirement, and then let anyone who
wished to contest also run instead of telling us not to.

'At the time of the vote to reinstate Aeryi, I had received no hint that
anyone was likely to contest....We were forced to do this because of the
way in which the election system works, not in an attempt to subvert the
electoral process.'

One, you never even mentioned to the city that the Senate would be
considering this. Two, how would you know if there was no one who
would've contested. Three, because you told people not to enter, you
ended up subverting the electoral process anyways. And I do believe you
meant to. Why else force us to not contest? And by trying to make up for
the situation by saying we will have a referendum afterwards does
nothing. Especially when you say that it will take a yes vote to 'open'
a contestation which gives the impression that if the vote is no that
there can be no contestation. People can always contest as long as they
follow the Tables, which only states that a contestor must speak to the
Imperiate before contesting. The Imperiate, however, cannot prevent the
person from contesting if they so do wish.

'The question has also arisen about the clause in the Twelve Tables
regarding five years of continuous citizenship. There is precedent for
making an exception in unusual circumstances (Cyrene 162) and I think
Aeryi's situation certainly qualifies....In any case, Aeryi has been
granted an exemption to the five-year's of continuous citizenship clause
due to the unusual circumstances of her case.'

That exception was to give a new guild an opportunity to contest if they
so wished. It didn't mean they would do it, and it certainly didn't
ensure a Mojushai contestor would win. It was made at a time when there
had only been one guild existing in the city. That kind of circumstance
isn't the issue here, and with such a large base of potential contestors
now, there would be no reason to grant an exemption on that basis. As I
stated before, this whole issue could've been handled better and end up
like it is now, but you had to go force it upon our democratic society
and demand we do as you say. You may say you didn't do such a thing, but
your tone is louder than your words. You have threatened our citizens
for even giving thought to questoning what you say, so how else can one
take anything you 'ask'? Time and time again you have attempted to mold
Cyrene behavior towards what you wish, and each time the outcry against
it has been stronger. I am certain that if you continue along this
course you will find people demanding your ouster loudly.

Be warned.

----
The Above was a letter sent to me with a request for it to be posted so
there it is. Replying or messaging to me is a useless point as I am not
the composer. Thank you and Good Day.

Penned by my hand on the 5th of Ero, in the year 360 AF.


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