Achaean News

Previous Article | Back to News Summary | Next Article
Announce News Post #2679

Damage changes

Written by: Clementius, the Weaver
Date: Thursday, December 6th, 2007
Addressed to: Everyone


Damage is changing.

The ultimate goal of these changes is to reduce extreme results, high or
low, that flow from one of two sources: multiple influences combined
(aka stacking), and extremely high or low stats (often produced by
stacking as well).

What we've done today is a very minor, small step, which should not
change overall damage by more than a couple of percentage points. In
many, if not most, cases, things won't change at all. I'll give a bit
more detail of precisely what was done below.


Why Are We Telling You This?
----------------------------
We're telling you about this because with changes of this nature and
extent there's always a chance for unintended consequences. We know
this, and we're keeping our eyes open for anything that goes amiss. We
welcome your input as well, so if something seems very different (like
you stop doing damage altogether, or something that used to take 5 mauls
to kill now takes 3, etc) - file a detailed bug report please.


Detailed Bug Reports
--------------------
If you aren't sure what a detailed bug report is, please read HELP BUGS
and look for all the examples of things not to do, such as filing a bug
in this manner:

BUG I think this may be a bug, but maybe not, but somebody told me to
do this, and please, if it is a bug, hurry and fix it. Damage is broken.

(we don't need your comments or opinions, and we don't need you to tell
us to fix it, or to hurry, and we need way more detail than "Damage is
broken!" We need details like where you were, what exact,
letter-by-letter command you used, what precise, detailed messages you
saw, what you expected to happen, why you think this is broken? etc)


Messy Numbers, AKA What Precisely We're Doing Now
-------------------------------------------------
Up till now, damage enhancements, plus and minus, were applied
multiplicatively, one at a time. Now they are summed before being
multiplied.

For many, that explanation probably doesn't help much. Hopefully, the
following example will.

Say you are performing an attack that you know will produce 100 damage.
Say you have several bonuses to damage, including a +10% bonus from your
House's primary Icon power, a 30% bonus from something else, and a 20%
bonus from yet another thing.

The Old Way, Which Would Produce 171 Damage
-------------------------------------------
Starting Damage = 100.
10% bonus. 100 * 1.10 = 110 damage so far.
30% bonus. 110 * 1.30 = 143 damage so far.
20% bonus. 143 * 1.20 = 171 damage finally.

The New Way, Which would Produce 160 Damage
-------------------------------------------
Starting Damage = 100.
Add 10% bonus, 30% bonus, 20% bonus to give a total of 60% bonus.
Multiply by base damage.
100 * 1.60 = 160 damage finally.

In More General, Symbolic Terms
-------------------------------
Formerly: TotalDamage = InitialDamage * (1+bonus1) * (1+bonus2) ....
Now: TotalDamage = InitialDamage * ( 1 + bonus1 + bonus2 ... )


What Else Happened
------------------
The changes we've put in today include a bunch of cleanup and
clarification of the underlying code. This will allow us to make other
changes somewhat more easily and flexibly. All those changes are right
now aimed at reining in extreme values at the high and low ends.


The Process
-----------
Nothing is set in stone. To continue with that analogy, remember that
the original stone tablets that gave rise to that saying - remember that
they were broken and had to be done again!

This is a step-by-step process. We're watching every change we make, and
monitoring to make sure things go the way we want. We're keeping our
eyes open for unintended side effects. And we'll continue to make
changes until our goals are reached.


Why Are We Doing This At All?
-----------------------------
This approach is substantially due to the patient suggestions and
careful observations of our dedicated Leaders and Combat Council, the
largest number of whom spend a lot of time thinking about what's wrong
and discussing options of how to fix it. These hard-working,
hard-posting people do most of their discussing on the Achaean forums,
where we in the Garden can benefit from their ideas. And we do! We
really appreciate their input, which has many times been the source of
initiatives for the good of us all.

Not that other ideas are overlooked. Quite the contrary! The Achaean
forum "Golden Dais of Creation" is filled with ideas, many of which we
have adopted over the last few months. That is also a great place to
contribute carefully-thought-out ideas and to refine them into something
that will help us all.

Thank you so much, Combat Council and Achaean Leaders. You know who you
are. We owe you a debt of gratitude.


What's Next?
------------
Since the ultimate goal of these changes is to reduce extreme results,
high or low, we are now in a much better position to be able to do that,
both with an improved, clearer, and more consistent foundation, and with
a few places all ready for the tweaks needful to attain the reductions
desired. So, for example, right now it is possible for someone with
extremely low strength to do only one eighth of the damage of someone
with average strength.

We plan to modify that to produce a sort of diminishing returns, where,
starting from average, the first point (up or down) in a stat will do a
certain amount of good, and then each point thereafter will also do
good, but not quite as much as the last.

Whatever the exact numbers are, you can be confident that every point of
strength, or intelligence (the main damage-influencing statistics) will
still make a difference in the proper direction.

Penned by my hand on the 5th of Daedalan, in the year 467 AF.


Previous Article | Back to News Summary | Next Article
Previous | Summary | Next
Announce News Post #2679

Damage changes

Written by: Clementius, the Weaver
Date: Thursday, December 6th, 2007
Addressed to: Everyone


Damage is changing.

The ultimate goal of these changes is to reduce extreme results, high or
low, that flow from one of two sources: multiple influences combined
(aka stacking), and extremely high or low stats (often produced by
stacking as well).

What we've done today is a very minor, small step, which should not
change overall damage by more than a couple of percentage points. In
many, if not most, cases, things won't change at all. I'll give a bit
more detail of precisely what was done below.


Why Are We Telling You This?
----------------------------
We're telling you about this because with changes of this nature and
extent there's always a chance for unintended consequences. We know
this, and we're keeping our eyes open for anything that goes amiss. We
welcome your input as well, so if something seems very different (like
you stop doing damage altogether, or something that used to take 5 mauls
to kill now takes 3, etc) - file a detailed bug report please.


Detailed Bug Reports
--------------------
If you aren't sure what a detailed bug report is, please read HELP BUGS
and look for all the examples of things not to do, such as filing a bug
in this manner:

BUG I think this may be a bug, but maybe not, but somebody told me to
do this, and please, if it is a bug, hurry and fix it. Damage is broken.

(we don't need your comments or opinions, and we don't need you to tell
us to fix it, or to hurry, and we need way more detail than "Damage is
broken!" We need details like where you were, what exact,
letter-by-letter command you used, what precise, detailed messages you
saw, what you expected to happen, why you think this is broken? etc)


Messy Numbers, AKA What Precisely We're Doing Now
-------------------------------------------------
Up till now, damage enhancements, plus and minus, were applied
multiplicatively, one at a time. Now they are summed before being
multiplied.

For many, that explanation probably doesn't help much. Hopefully, the
following example will.

Say you are performing an attack that you know will produce 100 damage.
Say you have several bonuses to damage, including a +10% bonus from your
House's primary Icon power, a 30% bonus from something else, and a 20%
bonus from yet another thing.

The Old Way, Which Would Produce 171 Damage
-------------------------------------------
Starting Damage = 100.
10% bonus. 100 * 1.10 = 110 damage so far.
30% bonus. 110 * 1.30 = 143 damage so far.
20% bonus. 143 * 1.20 = 171 damage finally.

The New Way, Which would Produce 160 Damage
-------------------------------------------
Starting Damage = 100.
Add 10% bonus, 30% bonus, 20% bonus to give a total of 60% bonus.
Multiply by base damage.
100 * 1.60 = 160 damage finally.

In More General, Symbolic Terms
-------------------------------
Formerly: TotalDamage = InitialDamage * (1+bonus1) * (1+bonus2) ....
Now: TotalDamage = InitialDamage * ( 1 + bonus1 + bonus2 ... )


What Else Happened
------------------
The changes we've put in today include a bunch of cleanup and
clarification of the underlying code. This will allow us to make other
changes somewhat more easily and flexibly. All those changes are right
now aimed at reining in extreme values at the high and low ends.


The Process
-----------
Nothing is set in stone. To continue with that analogy, remember that
the original stone tablets that gave rise to that saying - remember that
they were broken and had to be done again!

This is a step-by-step process. We're watching every change we make, and
monitoring to make sure things go the way we want. We're keeping our
eyes open for unintended side effects. And we'll continue to make
changes until our goals are reached.


Why Are We Doing This At All?
-----------------------------
This approach is substantially due to the patient suggestions and
careful observations of our dedicated Leaders and Combat Council, the
largest number of whom spend a lot of time thinking about what's wrong
and discussing options of how to fix it. These hard-working,
hard-posting people do most of their discussing on the Achaean forums,
where we in the Garden can benefit from their ideas. And we do! We
really appreciate their input, which has many times been the source of
initiatives for the good of us all.

Not that other ideas are overlooked. Quite the contrary! The Achaean
forum "Golden Dais of Creation" is filled with ideas, many of which we
have adopted over the last few months. That is also a great place to
contribute carefully-thought-out ideas and to refine them into something
that will help us all.

Thank you so much, Combat Council and Achaean Leaders. You know who you
are. We owe you a debt of gratitude.


What's Next?
------------
Since the ultimate goal of these changes is to reduce extreme results,
high or low, we are now in a much better position to be able to do that,
both with an improved, clearer, and more consistent foundation, and with
a few places all ready for the tweaks needful to attain the reductions
desired. So, for example, right now it is possible for someone with
extremely low strength to do only one eighth of the damage of someone
with average strength.

We plan to modify that to produce a sort of diminishing returns, where,
starting from average, the first point (up or down) in a stat will do a
certain amount of good, and then each point thereafter will also do
good, but not quite as much as the last.

Whatever the exact numbers are, you can be confident that every point of
strength, or intelligence (the main damage-influencing statistics) will
still make a difference in the proper direction.

Penned by my hand on the 5th of Daedalan, in the year 467 AF.


Previous | Summary | Next