Combat Training!

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Lyr
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Joined: 2012-05-15

I thought it'd be useful if the more experienced combatants among us would have a look at the combat logs of the up-and-coming combatants to maybe share some advice or tips. This will help new combatants as well as give older combatants a chance to raise worthy opponents!

I'll start! Priest versus Blademaster.

[url="http://pastebin.com/Fxa5b6Du"]the log on Pastebin

How it ended:

Quote:
1779h (42%) 1687m (48%) 19998e 13739w xdbk- > (-43 Health)
Your wounds close up before your eyes.
2201h (52%) 1687m (48%) 19998e 13739w xdbk- > (+422 Health) aa Trying to shield off-equilibrium! I'm awesome, I know.
2201h (52%) 1567m (44%) 20000e 13715w xdbk- >
Whispering a prayer to the southwestern winds, Krex draws Noble Salvation and unleashes a slash
towards your right leg.
With a flourish of his blade, Krex sends a trail of blood arcing through the air.
Minute bolts of lightning arc from the blade into your flesh, jangling your nerves.
1023h (24%) 1567m (44%) 20000e 13715w xdbk- > (focus)(-1178 Health) Um, ow!
Lashing out with a clenched fist, Krex aims a precise strike at your sternum.
The blow cracks bone, and a flood of pain washes through your chest.
867h (20%) 1567m (44%) 20000e 13715w xdbk- > (-156 Health)
Your left leg feels stronger and healthier.
You may apply another salve to yourself.
867h (20%) 1567m (44%) 20000e 13715w xdbk- > (apply restoration to legs|touch tree)
(smoke 92921)
You focus your mind intently on curing your mental maladies.
Your nerves suddenly calm down.
867h (20%) 1317m (37%) 20000e 13646w xdbk- > (-250 Mana)
You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your legs.
867h (20%) 1317m (37%) 20000e 13646w xdbk- >
You touch the tree of life tattoo.
The bones in your left leg mend.
867h (20%) 1317m (37%) 20000e 13646w xdbk- >
You take a long drag off your pipe.
867h (20%) 1317m (37%) 20000e 13646w xdbk- > h Trying to hands myself off-equilibrium, too!
perform hands
Whispering a prayer to the southwestern winds, Krex draws Noble Salvation and unleashes a slash
towards your right leg.
With a flourish of his blade, Krex sends a trail of blood arcing through the air.
As the razor-sharp blade slices through your flesh, you feel the last vestiges of strength leave
your body.
You have been slain by Krex.
**********************************************************
You have been defeated and are thrown out of the Arena.
**********************************************************

Some things I noticed, I should've shielded more at the end, but svo was restoring because I was in a bad place. Plus 1200 damage each time is a lot. I'm not really sure how Blademasters work so that's part of the problem, heh.

Lynn's picture
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Joined: 2012-05-15

Lyr wrote:

I thought it'd be useful if the more experienced combatants among us would have a look at the combat logs of the up-and-coming combatants to maybe share some advice or tips. This will help new combatants as well as give older combatants a chance to raise worthy opponents!

I'll start! Priest versus Blademaster.

[url="http://pastebin.com/Fxa5b6Du"]the log on Pastebin

How it ended:

Quote:
1779h (42%) 1687m (48%) 19998e 13739w xdbk- > (-43 Health)
Your wounds close up before your eyes.
2201h (52%) 1687m (48%) 19998e 13739w xdbk- > (+422 Health) aa Trying to shield off-equilibrium! I'm awesome, I know.
2201h (52%) 1567m (44%) 20000e 13715w xdbk- >
Whispering a prayer to the southwestern winds, Krex draws Noble Salvation and unleashes a slash
towards your right leg.
With a flourish of his blade, Krex sends a trail of blood arcing through the air.
Minute bolts of lightning arc from the blade into your flesh, jangling your nerves.
1023h (24%) 1567m (44%) 20000e 13715w xdbk- > (focus)(-1178 Health) Um, ow!
Lashing out with a clenched fist, Krex aims a precise strike at your sternum.
The blow cracks bone, and a flood of pain washes through your chest.
867h (20%) 1567m (44%) 20000e 13715w xdbk- > (-156 Health)
Your left leg feels stronger and healthier.
You may apply another salve to yourself.
867h (20%) 1567m (44%) 20000e 13715w xdbk- > (apply restoration to legs|touch tree)
(smoke 92921)
You focus your mind intently on curing your mental maladies.
Your nerves suddenly calm down.
867h (20%) 1317m (37%) 20000e 13646w xdbk- > (-250 Mana)
You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your legs.
867h (20%) 1317m (37%) 20000e 13646w xdbk- >
You touch the tree of life tattoo.
The bones in your left leg mend.
867h (20%) 1317m (37%) 20000e 13646w xdbk- >
You take a long drag off your pipe.
867h (20%) 1317m (37%) 20000e 13646w xdbk- > h Trying to hands myself off-equilibrium, too!
perform hands
Whispering a prayer to the southwestern winds, Krex draws Noble Salvation and unleashes a slash
towards your right leg.
With a flourish of his blade, Krex sends a trail of blood arcing through the air.
As the razor-sharp blade slices through your flesh, you feel the last vestiges of strength leave
your body.
You have been slain by Krex.
**********************************************************
You have been defeated and are thrown out of the Arena.
**********************************************************

Some things I noticed, I should've shielded more at the end, but svo was restoring because I was in a bad place. Plus 1200 damage each time is a lot. I'm not really sure how Blademasters work so that's part of the problem, heh.

Turn svo auto restoring off, manually restore. It's really easy for svo to put you in a bad place by auto restoring. Much easier and safer to just make yourself some really noticeable highlights and echoes for situations where you would need to restore.

Kakuzu's picture
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This is a pretty good idea Lyr, thumbs up!

On your log (And this is coming from someone who doesn't really know much about combat so don't take anything I say as an absolute)
Think about these things,
Did you have all your necessary rites setup?
Did you have a plan in mind, as well as a few back-ups?

And can I ask, what -was- your plan there?

I don't honestly really know how to combat Blademasters, especially as a priest (I've never been a priest and I rarely fight Priests).

Lyr
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Kakuzu wrote:

This is a pretty good idea Lyr, thumbs up!

On your log (And this is coming from someone who doesn't really know much about combat so don't take anything I say as an absolute)
Think about these things,
Did you have all your necessary rites setup?
Did you have a plan in mind, as well as a few back-ups?

And can I ask, what -was- your plan there?

I don't honestly really know how to combat Blademasters, especially as a priest (I've never been a priest and I rarely fight Priests).

I had piety and demons. I could've put down more healing ones but I didn't want to waste time.

Initial plan: sap / absolve
Backup plan: shattering legs and judging

I just got overwhelmed by his momentum, from what I can tell.

Kafziel's picture
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Joined: 2012-05-15

Not sure if he has a gem/arties, but raja BM in Arash doesn't deal with damage well. You'd put him on the defensive with a couple of smites.

Kakuzu's picture
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I'd hit him a few times until he shields or runs, SAP SAP SAP and then smite/sap. You can't really do much else from what I know. Obviously put spiritwrack on him and lay down piety/demons. Force him to sip health/shield and then try to take his mana away is what I can think of. Other than that, you have piety down right? Try and keep count of how many times he hits you and then run before he breaks you. With piety down, that should give you a bit of recovery time, to hopefully tank the doublebreak?

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Kakuzu wrote:

I'd hit him a few times until he shields or runs, SAP SAP SAP and then smite/sap. You can't really do much else from what I know. Obviously put spiritwrack on him and lay down piety/demons. Force him to sip health/shield and then try to take his mana away is what I can think of. Other than that, you have piety down right? Try and keep count of how many times he hits you and then run before he breaks you. With piety down, that should give you a bit of recovery time, to hopefully tank the doublebreak?

Lyr was at full at the double arm break. A better option, IMO, would be to run on the arm break until one is cured and you can shield (I know this wasn't possible in this case because of being off EQ from sap).

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Yeah, but running with a double arm break and being at full health is better than staying in the room right?
Just run when in trouble, and lay a piety in the room you run to in case they manage to follow.
Might just be me but I much prefer playing defensively and setting up slowly while staying alive

Edit: What the big man said, cleansing is your buddy. For a bit of fun try tactically placing your rites, heh.
Think of the room you begin in as the center where you place piety/demons/cleansing, place the same around that room and then a room away from THOSE rooms place your healing rites. When you're in trouble run to the outermost 'circle', and then back to the middle when you're ready.

Tanris's picture
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Cleansing, healing, revit. They're worth the time to put down in almost any circumstance.
I am unsure whether cleansing can strip stance, but even if it can't, you can potentially strip his shin trance and various other important defences.
As was previously said, if he breaks both arms, run until you can shield.

Daslin's picture
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Joined: 2011-08-17

tanris wrote:

Cleansing, healing, revit. They're worth the time to put down in almost any circumstance.
I am unsure whether cleansing can strip stance, but even if it can't, you can potentially strip his shin trance and various other important defences.
As was previously said, if he breaks both arms, run until you can shield.

I've not had cleansing strip my stance. I think they made it unstrippable. Meh. Lyr, Just kerslam a BM with damage as FAST and HARD as you can to start out, and guess what, you've screwed their offense so hard, they can barely react. It's a more momentum class than any other.

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Joined: 2011-08-19

Full rites are entirely worth it. So is eating moss. Looking at your death, you didn't have a chance to run/shield between the double arm break and leg break/prone because of sap equilibrium. Even without the bad restore I think you were going to be mangled (difficult to judge exactly without timestamps & arash's pernicious influence on limb damage), and even with revit and moss I think you'd've been damaged out before you could stand again. What else can you do to not die? After he applied firefist, it dropped your rebounding twice. If you went onto the defensive as soon as he applied it, his life would've been much more awkward: having to raze rebounding might slow down his offence enough that he can't mangle, and you can stand up and shield/hands/absolve because you've been dutifully sapping. The other option is tumbling and hoping that having to either evade or run the piety gauntlet saves you. The downside to tumbling is that you take an engage hit, which doesn't help.

As for offence: he evaded out after several rounds of sapping, and your reaction was to shield. Chase and absolve! Put up firewalls and deny him icewalls. Fight in one-exit rooms if you can, so you don't need to play guess-the-direction; if not, lay pilg adjacent. Fight indoors to deny highleap. Try heal insomnia/sap, to catch out lazy people who don't switch to cohosh against priests. Turn on spiritwrack at the start of fights, not midway through when you're making headway into his mana.

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Joined: 2011-09-25

Alright I'm not that great of a combatant but before I read the log I just want to tell you that you NEED revit on any type of damage class. Seriously dude, put it before demons in 1v1 situations. As well if you notice him in arash, increase the amounts of smites between saps.

Edit: I can teach you a certain trick for priest, which would have probably let you survive. Check your PMs and keep it on the down low.

Synbios (not verified)
Synbios's picture

@Tanris: I believe shin trance has been changed so it can't be stripped anymore.
@Gwawr: By the way, flamefist prevents rebounding from coming up(that is to say, you can smoke skullcap, but when the rebound timer finishes ticking and you're still afflicted with flamefist, the rebounding won't come up). I take it that you meant 'razing shield'?

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Synbios wrote:

@Tanris: I believe shin trance has been changed so it can't be stripped anymore.
@Gwawr: By the way, flamefist prevents rebounding from coming up(that is to say, you can smoke skullcap, but when the rebound timer finishes ticking and you're still afflicted with flamefist, the rebounding won't come up). I take it that you meant 'razing shield'?

I think she meant that Lyr should've gone defensive until flamefist faded, so that he could have the benefit of rebounding to slow down the blademaster offense

Noelai's picture
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Hey I have a log against Krex too! He really brings the pain :wub:

http://pastebin.com/ea4AM2ps

I know that he was in Arash after he leapt up, just didn't really have time to do much about it I thought.

Any tips for surviving?

Edit: Oh, this is Druid vs Blademaster in case anyone was wondering

Aleyki's picture
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Noelai wrote:

Hey I have a log against Krex too! He really brings the pain :wub:

http://pastebin.com/ea4AM2ps

I know that he was in Arash after he leapt up, just didn't really have time to do much about it I thought.

Any tips for surviving?

Edit: Oh, this is Druid vs Blademaster in case anyone was wondering

There's no rule saying you have to stand there and let them hit you while you spam touch shield. You're better off walking away and catching your breath, especially since you were dangerously low on mana.

You tumbled way, way late.

I don't know much about Druid combat so I can't comment on that.

Zeon (not verified)
Synbios's picture

I wish more people went about trying to learn combat in game. :wub:

Skylark (not verified)
Synbios's picture

tanris wrote:

I am unsure whether cleansing can strip stance, but even if it can't, you can potentially strip his shin trance and various other important defences.

Stance strippable, trance is not. I'd much prefer the other way around; it's the most fun when your limb damage changes invisibly.

Noelai's picture
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Aleyki wrote:

Noelai wrote:

Hey I have a log against Krex too! He really brings the pain :mellow:

http://pastebin.com/ea4AM2ps

I know that he was in Arash after he leapt up, just didn't really have time to do much about it I thought.

Any tips for surviving?

Edit: Oh, this is Druid vs Blademaster in case anyone was wondering

There's no rule saying you have to stand there and let them hit you while you spam touch shield. You're better off walking away and catching your breath, especially since you were dangerously low on mana.

You tumbled way, way late.

I don't know much about Druid combat so I can't comment on that.

Well the only thing that makes it hard to run around is hamstring, but I guess if I don't shield it looks like he doesn't normally include it so that's a possibility. I guess I'm just too used to shielding on limb breaks instead of running around/away on them :unsure:

Lyr
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Zeon wrote:

I wish more people went about trying to learn combat in game. :unsure:

Sometimes the good combatants are too busy or unwilling to help out newbies who do stupid things over and over, but people lurk the forums all the time. *shrug* I'm doing both.

Zeon (not verified)
Synbios's picture

I know there's just a lot of ways to go about educating yourself on combat while in character, most of which gets unused because people are quick to jump to ooc clans/forums. That and it drives a bigger gap between pk and rp.

Skylark (not verified)
Synbios's picture

Combat is an ooc skill. Thus, ooc means. But I appreciate the sentiment.

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Quote:
4220h (100%) 3050m (87%) 20000e 16097w xdbk- > demn
I don't quite catch your drift.

4220h (100%) 3050m (87%) 20000e 16103w xdbk- > enemy krex
Whispering a prayer to the western winds, Krex draws Noble Salvation and unleashes a slash towards
your right arm.
With a flourish of his blade, Krex sends a trail of blood arcing through the air.
3726h (88%) 3050m (87%) 20000e 16103w xdbk- > (-494 Health)
Striking towards your head with a clenched fist, Krex connects with your temple.
Your thoughts scatter as clarity of mind deserts you.
3726h (88%) 3050m (87%) 20000e 16103w xdbk- > (focus)
Krex is already an enemy.

3726h (88%) 2800m (80%) 20000e 16034w xdbk- > (-250 Mana) enemy krex
»» Krex: +REBOUNDING
3726h (88%) 2800m (80%) 20000e 16034w xdbk- >
You feel an aura of rebounding surround you.
3726h (88%) 2800m (80%) 20000e 16034w xdbkr- >
Krex is already an enemy.

Yay for panicking! Hehe.

Quote:
Krex's mana stands at 4303/4479.

It might help to make a trigger to rewrite that and show you opponent's mana in percentage as well. Other than that, what everybody else said. :unsure:


enabled="y"
group="Highlights"
keep_evaluating="y"
match="^(\w+)\'s mana stands at (\d+)\/(\d+)\.$"
omit_from_output="y"
regexp="y"
send_to="12"
sequence="100"
>
local ocurrentmana = tonumber("%2")
local omaxmana = tonumber("%3")
local omanapcnt = math.ceil((ocurrentmana/omaxmana) * 100)
if omanapcnt > 50 then
Note("---------- %1 - %2/%3 - " .. omanapcnt .. " ----------")
else
ColourNote("red", "white", "---------- %1 - %2/%3 - " .. omanapcnt .. " ----------")
specialabsolve = "%1"
end

^ My contemplate highlight trigger, it would show me in this case:

Quote:
---------- Krex - 4303/4479 - 97 ----------

And if his mana was below 50% it would show that in bright red.

Merador's picture
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Skylark wrote:

Combat is an ooc skill. Thus, ooc means. But I appreciate the sentiment.

Stare

Daklore's picture
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Skylark wrote:

Combat is an ooc skill. Thus, ooc means. But I appreciate the sentiment.

It is? Makes me dumb for learning it IC, then. Pfft. Combat is not ooc, the triggers and mechanics for it are OOC, sure, but that's only one aspect of combat. Everything I learned about combat, I learned from other Wardens completely in game.

Usually by them beating the nerf out of me in the arena. They still do.

Trici (not verified)
Synbios's picture

Skylark is right -- it is an OOC skill. That's why a good combatant can be a good combatant on an alt, as well as his/her main. I think you misread what he said as "it is a skill which must be learned OOC." It is a skill one has as a player, which benefits your character, which may be learned by IC attempts.

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Daklore wrote:

Skylark wrote:

Combat is an ooc skill. Thus, ooc means. But I appreciate the sentiment.

It is? Makes me dumb for learning it IC, then. Pfft. Combat is not ooc, the triggers and mechanics for it are OOC, sure, but that's only one aspect of combat. Everything I learned about combat, I learned from other Wardens completely in game.

Usually by them beating the nerf out of me in the arena. They still do.


"In game" doesn't preclude "OOC" though. Sure, your character might have learned combat from those other Wardens, but what's probably much more relevant is what you, the player, learned in the process. It's perfectly possible to RP a character who spends a lot of time practicing with a sword, watching the city guards, exercising, learning skills, so he might rightfully have "learned combat IC", but that's all of no use if you, as the player didn't grasp the mechanics of Achaean combat and thus can't play your character in a way that he wins fights. Sure, it is always possible to roleplay a bad fighter, even if your OOC grasp of Achaean combat is good, but the other way round simply doesn't work, and let's face it: For most people player skill and roleplayed character fighting skill are very similar. We perceive a character as a good fighter because of its player's skills and not because we know "the character has practiced combat a lot".

This is not only the case with combat, but also some other things (e.g. it would be hard to roleplay a talented writer if your OOC grammar is very bad), but certainly not with everything (you can easily roleplay a good dancer or musician without having any sort of talent in that area as a player).

My Mudlet scripts: http://code.google.c.../downloads/list
Color/Uncolor: quick custom colouring o

Lyr
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name='~Ada~' timestamp='1316011112' post='1294072' wrote:

Quote:
4220h (100%) 3050m (87%) 20000e 16097w xdbk- > demn
I don't quite catch your drift.

4220h (100%) 3050m (87%) 20000e 16103w xdbk- > enemy krex
Whispering a prayer to the western winds, Krex draws Noble Salvation and unleashes a slash towards
your right arm.
With a flourish of his blade, Krex sends a trail of blood arcing through the air.
3726h (88%) 3050m (87%) 20000e 16103w xdbk- > (-494 Health)
Striking towards your head with a clenched fist, Krex connects with your temple.
Your thoughts scatter as clarity of mind deserts you.
3726h (88%) 3050m (87%) 20000e 16103w xdbk- > (focus)
Krex is already an enemy.

3726h (88%) 2800m (80%) 20000e 16034w xdbk- > (-250 Mana) enemy krex
»» Krex: +REBOUNDING
3726h (88%) 2800m (80%) 20000e 16034w xdbk- >
You feel an aura of rebounding surround you.
3726h (88%) 2800m (80%) 20000e 16034w xdbkr- >
Krex is already an enemy.

Yay for panicking! Hehe.

Lagpanic! My computer decided to be weird and try updating something so when I tried to type 'demons' it kinda... didn't. so I spammed 'enemy krex' around the same time because I didn't think it was going through. YOU KNOW MY DARKEST SECRETS! Sad

Mishgul's picture
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I don't see priests doing well against blademasters at your levels because of the rock paper scissors mechanics of achaea, but it never hurts to try either, you never know, and you could prove me wrong.

Blademasters can drain hefty amounts of mana with compassslashes forcing you to clot to avoid the heavy bleeding.

Make sure you use parry, don't make it easy for them to set you up, and if you want to be REALLY evil

TARGET LEFT LEG

wait for his rebounding to come up

SMITE KREX

rebounds!

Broken own leg!

Messes up his setup.

Kakuzu's picture
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A log of me fighting Gaetano

[url="http://pastebin.com/r3bQQqrs"]My link

Any tips on how to avoid dying so easily? I don't really have any voicecraft or harmonics at all, so I'm working with just under trans Swashbuckling.

Edit: Bah, idiot. I completely forgot to put Trueparry up. Would've slowed down the BBT, though I could have still been killed on straight damage. I can't really stay in the fight long enough to begin mounting a proper offense

Skylark (not verified)
Synbios's picture

Step one, fix this:

Quote:
You sing a graceful maqam of el'Jazira at Gaetano, who seems unmoved.
auralbless foliana
3439h, 3151m, 16095e, 13875w cekdb- (21:47:38:569)jab gaetano
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
[Vadi]: >>------------BALANCE------------------------BALANCE------------<<
jab gaetano
3439h, 3151m, 16095e, 13875w cexkdb- (21:47:38:736)
I do not recognise anything called that here.